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Chii  
#1 Posted : Friday, September 21, 2007 5:25:42 AM(UTC)
Chii

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered, Registered Users
Joined: 8/29/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3

At the onset my apology for such a lengthy post PLEASE READ IT IN ITS ENTIRETY this is a serious matter.


I thought it prudent to provide a detailed testimonial concerning the service provided by a custom dll programmer. I believe it in the interest of ALL Metastock users to understand the level of opportunism rampant in the particular avenue of custom dll programming for Metastock. You will also discover that certain programmers prey on the ignorance of potential clients. With an absence of transparency and integrity, attempts will be made to relieve you of your intellectual property, your copyright. The proprietor will also attempt to seize upon any opportunity for you to reveal related Metastock formula language(MSFL) code under the guise of further assisting you during your discussions. I urge you, NEVER reveal more than is necessary to complete the project. I also urge you, where possible, if your MSFL code has layers of processing, break it down and only offer the bottleneck which you seek to adapt into a dll. NEVER reveal the finished form code, unless you have protected your rights.


Important notes:

  • Please do not send your custom forumla/s blindly for quotation purposes.
  • Please ensure all correspondance with programmers is in the written word.
  • Please initiate a discussion with the programmer regarding copyright, prior to revealing any code.
  • Please continue reading so that you are informed of your rights as an innovator

After a brief discussion of the costs involved I revealed my copyright MSFL code (the algorithm, the bottleneck ONLY), 2 versions to be precise, with the same output. The commissioned task of this programmer was to adapt my copyright MSFL code into a dll, effectively speeding up its execution.

A few days later I received delivery of the project, not in its entirety mind you, a logic map was absent, but hey why would I require the logic to my own creation! Testing began for accuracy of adaptation and speed of execution. The adaptation of my source code performed as expected. It was only after further examination that I discovered the programmer had slapped a ubiquitous © on the dll. When confronting this opportunist I was presented with the following excerpts from an information sheet produced by the local Copyright Council. I will address the relevant underlined points.


What rights do copyright owners have?

Owners of copyright in computer programs have a number of exclusive rights, including the right to:

• reproduce the program in a material form (such as copying the program to the hard disk of a computer, and writing or typing the source code of the program);

• publish the program (such as making the program public for the first time in Australia);

• make an adaptation of the program (such as making a version of the program in either the same or a different language, code or notation: for example, a program in object code may be an adaptation of its source code version); and

• communicate the program to the public (such as making it available online, or by electronically transmitting it, using any type of cable or wireless technology including the internet).

If anyone other than the copyright owner wants to do any of these things with the program, he or she will generally need the owner’s permission. Generally, computer programs which are commercially available are accompanied by licences, which set out the terms and conditions on which the computer program and the accompanying material may be used. The terms and conditions of licensing agreements vary considerably, and in many cases may impose terms or conditions that relate to matters other than copyright issues.


My Comment

I had commissioned the programmer to adapt my program(MSFL code) into a different language, effectively giving permission to the programmer and compensating the programmer for the service. The PROGRAMMER HAS NO COPYRIGHT ON THE FINISHED PRODUCT. NONE!



Commissioned works

It is advisable for all commissioning agreements to be in writing, and to state clearly who will own copyright and what uses the other party may make of the program.Where there is no agreement about who owns copyright:

• a person who creates a computer program in return for a fee (that is, an independent contractor rather than an employee) owns the copyright in it;

• if an organisation such as a company is contracted to create a program, the organisation owns the copyright if the program is created by an employed programmer; and

• copyright in a computer program made under the direction or control of a State or Federal government is owned by the government.

In most cases, a commissioning party which does not own copyright is nevertheless entitled to use the program for the purposes for which it was commissioned.It may not be necessary for a commissioning party to be the owner of copyright in a program. In some cases it may be appropriate that the client owns some parts of commissioned software and the software creator owns others (for example, where a programmer uses “standard” program elements in software which they would use for various clients).

My Comment

The programmer has not created a program as my copyright MSFL code was adapted, therefore is not entitled to claim copyright. In the event the programmer produced the MSFL code, then adapted this code, only then will the programmer have copyright.


Copyright does not protect the function of a computer program. Copyright does not give a copyright owner a monopoly on what the program does. Rather it gives the owner the right to prevent someone else from duplicating the expression of the set of instructions that constitute the program. In one case, the court stated that the fact that two programs perform the same function does not, by itself, mean that there is any similarity between the two sets of instructions. If you need advice on protecting the function of a program, you will need to see a private solicitor with the relevant expertise.


My Comment

This one is truly beautiful. This clause pertains to competing products eg Microsoft Office and Open Office. Both programs perform the same function with their respective individual copyright on expressions and instructions sets, which could be entirely different but produce the same output. Once again, I have given permission to the programmer to adapt MY source code, NOT to allow it to be recycled into a product the programmer would like to claim as their own!!! Logically, the dll would not exist without my copyright MSFL code.


There is only one question which remains.
How opportunistic do I feel ?

Chii
~pillaged



KTP2  
#2 Posted : Friday, September 21, 2007 10:41:41 AM(UTC)
KTP2

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 2/2/2007(UTC)
Posts: 367

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)

In order to abide by the EIOC forum rules, this post has been edited to remove any possible reference to the persons/company implicated. Only two lines have been removed, the rest of the post remains as it was originally submitted.

Please be advised that the views in this post do not reflect the views of Equis International or the EIOC and we in no way are stating that the information is accurate. However, the views in this post serve as a reminder to know and understand your rights.

Chii  
#3 Posted : Saturday, September 22, 2007 2:37:17 AM(UTC)
Chii

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered, Registered Users
Joined: 8/29/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3

Hello KTP2,

I have closely examined the Equis International Online Community Policy statement along with the accompanying Community Rules. The two lines removed by you pertain only to a method of contact. Not the specific contact details of an organisation or its proprietor. Its my view that i have complied with the relevant policies of the Community. The following excerpts were taken from the EIOC policy statement and the EIOC rules.

Submission Policy
You may not post or transmit any message which is libelous, defamatory or which discloses private or personal matters concerning any person.


No defamatory statements allowed

Avoid repeating vague and unsubstantiated rumors about any person, company or product. Stick to your own experiences and your own opinions, based on what you know to be true.

How am i in breach of these rules?

a very confused Chii

Hawk  
#4 Posted : Monday, October 1, 2007 3:26:47 AM(UTC)
Hawk

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered, Registered Users
Joined: 7/7/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8

chii,

You must appreciate those forum's partiality.

johnl  
#5 Posted : Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:20:17 PM(UTC)
johnl

Rank: Advanced Member

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Joined: 11/7/2005(UTC)
Posts: 602

Your quote:
"Commissioned works It is advisable for all commissioning agreements to be in writing, and to state clearly who will own copyright and what uses the other party may make of the program."
I would also add who owns said source code and removal of code from contrators
computer since a mistake could put it someone elses hands.
Must have been a pretty good program.
This is also a reminder to be carful in entering any program in any internet competition.

henry1224  
#6 Posted : Sunday, January 20, 2008 10:33:09 AM(UTC)
henry1224

Rank: Advanced Member

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Posts: 1,394
Location: Glastonbury, CT

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)

I would not spend a dime for any black box system, nor for any plain MSFL coded system. As one gets more adept at MSFL coding, they will be able to code their own systems, with far better results.

I will only pay for dll's that will expand the functions for use in indicators and experts and not in simulation tests.

Chii  
#7 Posted : Friday, March 7, 2008 5:14:09 AM(UTC)
Chii

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered, Registered Users
Joined: 8/29/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3

Hawk, I dont appreciate the absence of integrity from forum administrators, incestuous behaviour at best.


JohnL, Whether the "program" is good or not is best answered by the programmer who adapted my code. As i had described in the initial post the code which was presented for adaptation was merely a bottleneck, if you will, a stage 1 in a 3 stage indicator. It contained one PREV function which slowed the final processing. When adapting native MSFL into dll's the C++ program language uses inherent loops to circumvent the PREV function, in this case it naturally resulted in speed of execution.

In response to your comments on source code etc. the programmer was meant to provide me the C++ project files, essentially guaranteeing my exclusivity. suffice it to say, they were never provided. they should be deleted from the programmers computer as you suggest.


Henry1224, Its unfortunate you presume i'm in the business of creating "black box" systems?
i have merely acted on principle on this matter . here is another example of the opportunistic nature of this particular programmer. A quote from the programmers paypal invoice;

witheld" is not an investment advisor and has no training, qualifications or
licence to offer financial advice. He reserves the right to reuse any code
from any previous projects created for you or any other customer in this
project and reserves the right to reuse the code contained in this project in
any future projects for you or any other customer.
Any project
recommendations are guidelines to interpreting the respective analysis
methods and should not be acted on or interpreted in any other way. This
information should only be used by investors who are aware of the risks
inherent in securities trading. He accepts no liability whatsoever for any
loss arising from any use of these products or their contents and cannot be
held accountable for any damage of losses incurred through proper or improper
use of any indicators, expert advisers, explorations or system tests
delivered as part of this project or any other project. Please, always
consult a properly licensed investment advisor before making any decisions
about buying or selling any security.

Ask yourself how exclusivity can be guaranteed with such a contradiction!! Misleading and deceptive conduct at best.

ta tah
Chii









KTP2  
#8 Posted : Friday, March 7, 2008 5:11:52 PM(UTC)
KTP2

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 2/2/2007(UTC)
Posts: 367

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)

The EIOC forum is intended to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the Equis International community. This thread is not in keeping with this ideal and is therefore being locked.

EIOC Administrator.

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