Guara Riua, I can't comment on your system, since you haven't posted it. I have a few questions for you though, 1: what time frame are you trading? 2:what are your pivot Time factors? 3: Are you using the pivots as a stop? I have found trend direction to be very stable, it is based on pivots from a higher time frame to determine the trend on a lower time frame

Pivot types are meant for support and resistance and not for exact timing signals.

Henry I always appreciate the comments and recommendations from traders with more experience than mine. Working in the electric design field I am inclined to rely on tools and systems that provide a consistent behavior for a large variations of data input and more importantly, are simulating with a high consistency. I agree that my trend-pivots following system can be not the best way to use the PP+ add-on. But even with your example that plots the resistance-support lines based on Pivots Type, the plot output will change in real-time as the pivots higher than Minor will change. This will happen also for higher time frames. What I am saying is that most probably, PP+ is providing a very good info for any given historical data, ploting good quality pivots and other indicators based on pivots type. But all this is changing in real-time data streaming. I am pretty sure that TrendDirection will change its output too, if set for a pivot type higher than minor, for any TimeFactor used. This can be verified with any historical data by cutting it shorter, close to a Major/Intermediate pivot and adding subsequently more bars to the loaded/displayed data. These are the reasons that I am rising a big question mark about using PP+ in real-time trading. I can agree also that most of the time the PP+ add-on could provide good quality signals, but any trading system based heavily on PP+ will not be able to provide good quality back testing results. This kind of system cannot have its performances consistently evaluted because the simulation will be always better than the real-time results. Tese were my 2 cents. Guara

We have discussed this issue many times ... So no, it's not a shocker Jose. Do we really need to go over it again ... :x Alright then ... I tested the power pivots plug in many times and there were a few cases of hindsight results on the contrarian and pivots functions. So yes most the system / expert that came with the plugin will report results that are actually much better than they would be in real trading. Again, as this has been said many times, the plug in itself is maybe not something I would recommend. :wink: Now regarding henry's formulae, you will also notice that most Henry's formulae use the syseval and trend direction functions ... While I have not tested all of them I'm fairly positive that they are valid and can be useful. And then again, taking the risk to repeat myself here, you have to test and paper trade ANY system no matter who wrote it ... Patrick PS: Henry and Jose, quit it ... Please ...

Henry I appreciate the time you have taken for adding some clarifications to the correct use of PP+. If the SysEval function is totally independent of Pivot Types, then I totally agree with your statement that its use should be very much recommended. Support/Resistance I agree also that the support and resistance values will remain constant, independent of the pivot type, but think about their significance: - there are Minor/Intermediate/Major and Primary support/resistance lines according to their corresponding Pivot Types. When a Minor pivot evolves into a Major pivot and so on, the significance of the support/resistance line is changing too. Unfortunately this will happen after a substantial delay in real-time. You can have a situation when a Minor support/resistance line is crossed, and after quite some time this line becomes/evolves into an Intermediate/Major support/resistance line and your stop loss/limit signal will appear "post-mortem" if it's based on a condition where the price is crossing an Intermediate/Major support/resistance line. Obviously there will be no "post-mortem" signals if the buy/sell condition for the price crossing a support/resistance line will use only those values generated by Minor pivots only. Trend Direction I agree with your affirmations about the TrendDirection function only for the case when using Minor Pivots Type. In the case when using the TrendDirection function for pivot type higher than Minor its output will change as the pivot evolves from Minor to Intermediate and so on. Using a higher time frame this will happen just the same, but it will take a much longer. I agree than meantime, the trade would have been already triggered/stopped out if the decision was based on Minor Pivots only, for the TrendDirection function. If the TrendDirection function is set up to work for Intermediate pivot types or higher then, as the pivot type changes/evolves from Minor to higher ones, so will do the function output: it will change BACKWARDS IN TIME. I agree than when using only Minor Pivot Types for trading decisions with any function from the PP+ add-on it will work OK in real-time, but I believe that ALL the functions that use Intermediate Pivot Type or higher will generate non-usable signals in real-time trading. I am gladly welcoming any suggestions/comments that will prove me wrong, because if it will happen, then I will have the chance to continue to use this product with ALL its features. I used the 5 min time frame to "catch" the Pivot Type changing event, but for trading I use 5min, 15min, 1 hr and daily time frames as 4 separate charts. I din't check the output for the TrendDirection function yet. I've just deducted logically what will hapen when the pivot type changes. I intend to check it very soon and then I will post my results. Regards Guara

:evil: Man I am wore out about topic . ... Pivots change and you need to use ExtFml( "PowerPivots.PivotTrigger")=1 to back test systems. Some of the systems in the plug in did not have this in the back tests with out this code your back tests will have errors. point being IF you use the nth pivot price fuction in a back test you should also use the ExtFml( "PowerPivots.PivotTrigger")=1

This is going to make some waves. I've generated 3 kinds of pure mathematical stimulus files to check 2 of the most important PP+ external functions: 1) TrendDirection 2) Higher Time Frame indicators that can be plotted onto the current one. Bad news for both. For high frequency input variations (low bars per cycle count) the PP+ function output is far from being consistent. It will eventually kind of stabilizing for much lower frequencies (higher bars per cycle count), but will still show at some point a major functional discontinuity (see the MedianPrice 4x in the atttached document) or a smaller inconsistent behavior for the TrendDirection. I have tried to upload the stimulus files, so everybody to be able to replicate my findings, but I've got kicked out by the server with a 2MB limit error for the file size (even if the max file size for the attachments are stated to be 8MB). I am not sure if I can upload 2 attachments, but if this will not work, you can get the describing document from my other post : "ADSI Stimulus Files" that describes also how to convert CSV files to XLS files and then to use the Downloader to convert them to MetaStock format. After these tests I've abandoned the use of the PP+ add-on. For me the most important external function was the TdataCreate/TDataLocalize that was supposed to provide a way to calculate and plot an indicator from a higher time frame onto the current one. I found the TrendDirection for Pivot Types higher than Minor are quite late for the exit, when used in a higher Time Frame. I believe a good equity management stop/loss order will kick in way sooner than a signal generated only by the TrenDirection for Pivots Type of Intermediate or higher, in a higher time frame. I hope somebody will develop soon a similar function that will work like TDataCreate/TDataLocalize. I will add it to the Forum.DLL wish list anyway. Sorry to bring these bad news. This add-on could have been an attractive one with its rich external functions list. Guara

ExtFml( "PowerPivots.ArrayLoad", BIN#, HOOK) ExtFml( "PowerPivots.ArrayRelease", BIN#, HOOK) ExtFml( "PowerPivots.ArraySave", BIN#, ARRAY, HOOK) ExtFml( "PowerPivots.BarsSinceNthPivot", PivotTYPE, INSTANCE) ExtFml( "PowerPivots.FibLadder", LadderLevel, Length) ExtFml( "PowerPivots.NthPivotPrice", PivotTYPE, INSTANCE, TFACTOR) ExtFml( "PowerPivots.PivotBreakout", STRENGTH_LongTerm, STRENGTH_ShortTerm) ExtFml( "PowerPivots.Pivots") ExtFml( "PowerPivots.PivotTrigger") ExtFml( "PowerPivots.Retracement", PivotSTRENGTH, Retrace%, TFactor) ExtFml( "PowerPivots.RetInd", PlotIx, PivotArray, TrendArray, PivotSTRENGTH, Retrace%) ExtFml( "PowerPivots.SysEval", LongEntry, LongExit, ShortEntry, ShortExit, HOOK) ExtFml( "PowerPivots.TDataCreate", OHLC, TFactor) ExtFml( "PowerPivots.TDataLocalize", TDataArray, TFactor, Offset) ExtFml( "PowerPivots.TimeCapsules", PRICE, TFACTOR, OFFSET) ExtFml( "PowerPivots.TrendDirection", PivotSTRENGTH, TFACTOR) Which ones work? Which ones have bugs?

Henry Please download the document I've mentioned in my other post "ADSI Stimulus Files" with the Title "PPP_TF_Samples.doc" You will be able to see the type of stimulus I've used. It is not RANDOM at all. It's a continous and predictable function because is a weighted sum of 2 and respectively 3 sine waves. It also provides at the end the formulas I've used for the indicators that are part of the screen shots. I have no intention to test all the add-ons in the world. I started this one because I saw on the charts some functions behavior that rised my attention. I already mentioned the functions I have tested and I have no intention to go further to test the rest of this package. I may even try to use the SysEval for my next system. I am focused now to build a trading system based on ADSI package and Dr. Ehlers work. I will let the forum know if I will reach an interesting result. Guara