Yes, I would be interested in the answer to this. It would seem signals at turning points (tops or bottoms) would have to wait for a percentage change in direction for verification (introducing lag). Without this verification, all you have is a trend line change. If PowerPivots uses the peak and trough functions then signals could disappear if not validated by a following "verified" percentage move. Maybe one of the forum leaders can shed light on how Major and Minor pivots are produced and when they become "valid". Thanks.

I will tell you that I have done a lot of testing against the power pivot plug in. My result is that a few of the experts, in very rare case for some, will give false signals. But also know that functions built in the dll are good. So what I am trying to say here is that henry's formulae on the forum are most certainly accurate and valid but that's beyond the point. Read this and make sure you remember this: ANY system you copy or purchase from someone should be tested and tested and tested again by you. There is no exception to this rule :twisted: In the training video for formula 2 I show how to adjust the data loaded to check signals. And henry explained it just above. Patrick :mrgreen:

hey minnamor and topcat...... that is an excellent question and concern..... and that was my number one concern when putting the power pivots plugin through the paces.... just looking at the math almost forces you to believe something might change..... any chart with a formula relying on data not yet here, how can it not..... believing that was the case, my test was the inverse of henry's.... i took days off the chart a few at a time to see if any signals changed..... obviously this works best with a chart having many signals..... i was more interested in if the money signals changed or moved, le, se, and such..... but i watched every symbol.... i eventualy gave up trying to find any money symbol that changed.... that was with a heck of a lot of looking...... so those formulas, many of which are beyond my abilites, must be accurate and stand on the chart as posted...... the absolutely perfect pivot labelings are a different story.... as mentioned before, with today's math that relies on tommorrow's data how could there not be a lag..... even without considering the formulas, just look at the chart, how can that 100% dead on labeling be.... the pivots , minor low 'r', intermidate low 'i', minor high and so on are labeled a couple days after the fact..... specificaly, if you look at a chart of 'sze' with the powerpivots plugin 't-fade' expert attached, the minor low labeling on 4/27/05 will not appear on the chart till 3 market days later.... the minor high label on 4/22/05 will not appear for 3 market days... so taking things one at a time here, 1. in a very clinical sense, yes some of the symbols change..... appearing on the chart 3 days after the fact is a change, or is to me..... 2. i could never find any symbol that vanished from the chart going forward or changed in the way of elliot wave truncations...... once their placed they stand.... still looking though .... 3, the money symbols, in my experience, never changed are were posted on the day, with no lag..... i had written up the steps taken but never got around to finishing it, this has convinced me to go forward.... patrick has said many times, test and retest, we could put with that question and requestion ..... thanks minnamor and topcat for your questions, they help us all......h

Topkat, you did not raise anybody's blood pressure and it was a valid question :D Sorry If it seemed otherwise :) Patrick

I think we are re-hashing what we already agree on, except for the pivot labels. I believe the last leg of the pivot label is dynamic until it is validated by whatever method Power Pivots uses to cement it into place (a percentage opposite move, or whatever). Until such time as validation takes place, it could disappear on you if price movement doesn't let it validate. We just wanted to make sure in the systems posted that the External Formula (ExtFml("PowerPivots....)) calls are using validated pivots for determining trends. According to the manual, that is the case.

If you are referring to me, I have played with the external formula calls to PP+. We're just trying to get a simple answer to our question??? It's good to trade with the trend, but in addition to trading with the trend, wouldn't you like to trade stocks outperforming the market as a whole?

If I'm not mistaken, there is no external formula function. Let me know if I am wrong.

Thanks, I'll try combining those two to see how it works, though I don't think it's something I would want to trade. On TrendDirection formulas that only check for 1 PivotStrength and 1 TFactor (i.e. "PowerPivots.TrendDirection",1,1) you are in essence getting a lot of Contrarian plays. There is no check for a higher level trend, thus the higher level trend(s) as defined by PP+ could be going with or against you.