logo
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
oem7110  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, May 7, 2014 9:30:15 PM(UTC)
oem7110

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 12/30/2005(UTC)
Posts: 120

I would like to know on how to trade with any volatility indicator.

Does anyone have any suggestions / example?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions
wabbit  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, May 7, 2014 10:09:10 PM(UTC)
wabbit

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers, Unverified Users
Joined: 10/28/2004(UTC)
Posts: 3,111
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Was thanked: 16 time(s) in 16 post(s)
Judging by your recent activity on this forum, I think your real question is, "How do I trade?"

If you want to "trade volatility" then you need to define what what you mean: do you want to trade periods of high volatility (risky but sometimes good rewards) or periods of low volatility (less risky but the returns can be smaller)? How do you define volatility? Over what time frame? If a stock was $1.00 and is now $1.10, is that volatile? What if that same stock starting at $1.00 arrived at $1.10 after visiting $4.00 and $0.20c? What if the transition period was one week, versus one year.

Only you can answer how you trade. Go to your favourite book shop and buy some books on trading and come to grips with all facets of trading including risk management, system development (design and testing), money/trade management, psychology etc. Or, there are plenty of resources on the net, start with some of the "basics" first; you might like to checkout sites like BabyPips (it's for forex trading but many of the principles are directly transferable to equity and other trading) (http://www.babypips.com/school/
wabbit  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, May 7, 2014 10:22:15 PM(UTC)
wabbit

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers, Unverified Users
Joined: 10/28/2004(UTC)
Posts: 3,111
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Was thanked: 16 time(s) in 16 post(s)
P.S. If you really want to investigate a volatility based trading system, you could worse than starting with the TTM Squeeze; have a read of "Mastering the Trade" by John F. Carter (it's a pretty good ready in any case and worth a read in its own right) or Google it. There is some stuff on the forum too : https://www.google.com.au/search?q=site%3Aforum.equis.com+TTM+Squeeze
oem7110  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, May 7, 2014 10:32:04 PM(UTC)
oem7110

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 12/30/2005(UTC)
Posts: 120

I try to determine of strength of direction based on volatility.

Do you have any example on how to apply it?

Thanks you very much for any suggstions :>
wabbit  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, May 7, 2014 10:37:03 PM(UTC)
wabbit

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers, Unverified Users
Joined: 10/28/2004(UTC)
Posts: 3,111
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Was thanked: 16 time(s) in 16 post(s)
oem7110  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, May 7, 2014 11:05:11 PM(UTC)
oem7110

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 12/30/2005(UTC)
Posts: 120

Thank you very much for suggestions :>3
oem7110  
#7 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 12:53:32 AM(UTC)
oem7110

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 12/30/2005(UTC)
Posts: 120

I would like to know more on how volatility determines market direction,

Can I assume that rising volatility indicates down direction and falling volatility indicates up direction?

Do you have any suggestions?

Thank you very much for any suggestions :>
wabbit  
#8 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 1:36:33 AM(UTC)
wabbit

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers, Unverified Users
Joined: 10/28/2004(UTC)
Posts: 3,111
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Was thanked: 16 time(s) in 16 post(s)
oem7110 wrote:
I would like to know more on how volatility determines market direction

It doesn't.

An instrument can have low volatility and its price increase, decrease or remain steady; it can also have high volatility as its price increases, decreases or oscillates about a constant value. It depends on how you actually measure "volatility" especially with regard to length of time. High, low, long, short, cheap, expensive, volatile, docile etc are all relative terms and are okay when used in casual conversation, but you must explicitly define these when considering trading, especially so if you ever want to program a computer.

oem7110 wrote:
Can I assume that rising volatility indicates down direction and falling volatility indicates up direction?

No. In most cases of how volatility is defined, a change of volatility means the rate of change of price will change.

Here's one way to think about volatility: If you agree that price equates to distance (or displacement from a known position i.e. zero, measured in units of currency) then the first derivative of displacement (or in our case the rate of change of price) is "speed"; the second derivative of displacement or rate of change of speed is "acceleration"; the third derivative or rate of change of acceleration is "jerk" etc. If we consider each as a vector having both magnitude and direction, then we can better describe volatility in common terms we know i.e. velocity, acceleration and jerk. (For interest, read what comes next : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jounce
Laisze  
#9 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 7:59:19 AM(UTC)
Laisze

Rank:: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 11/18/2007(UTC)
Posts: 96
Location: HK

wabbit wrote:
oem7110 wrote:
I would like to know more on how volatility determines market direction

It doesn't.


Wrong - it does.
Take a good look at the VIX vs S&P 500 index.


oem7110  
#10 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 9:38:04 AM(UTC)
oem7110

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 12/30/2005(UTC)
Posts: 120



That is one of the assumption in my mind, but don't know on how to put this idea into action.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks, to everyone very much for any suggestions
wabbit  
#11 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 12:22:16 PM(UTC)
wabbit

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers, Unverified Users
Joined: 10/28/2004(UTC)
Posts: 3,111
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Was thanked: 16 time(s) in 16 post(s)
In the past there may have existed strong (negative) correlation between $VIX and $SP, however that relationship has been in decline and accelerating for a period from 2012-2013; although there still exists a negative correlation over "short" timeframes, generally it is much weaker than what it was. The instances when the market and the VIX move in the same direction (weak positive correlation) still happen from time to time (and allegedly this still freaks some people out?)

UserPostedImage
5 (front) to 500 (rear) bar correlation coefficients (in 5 period steps) from 2010 to the present with no lookahead (no prediction).

Notice the right hand side is generally much higher than the left, showing the negative correlation weakening.

Of course, if you want to see what direction the market took today, there's no point in looking at today's VIX as you can just look directly at the $SP chart; what we as traders/investors really want to know is, by looking at the VIX today, predict what will the market be doing on the next trading day, or in the next few days?

UserPostedImage
5 (front) to 500 (rear) bar correlation coefficients from 2010 to the present with 1-Period lookahead (prediction of change in $SP in the future for a current change in $VIX)

We can see the correlation is a lot less consistent, overall is weaker and many more excursions into positive territory. If we test the VIX correlation to the $SP 5 periods into the future, things get worse.

UserPostedImage
5 (front) to 500 (rear) bar correlation coefficients from 2010 to the present with 5-Period lookahead.

The use of implied volatility is a valid trading method or tool, if, like all things, it is used correctly, with a full understanding of the capabilities and limitations. Understanding causality and inference goes a long way to preventing losses: just because the VIX moved today does not guarantee the price will change tomorrow, it just means that it has done so in the past. In my readings I've come across quite a few historical papers discussing VIX in particular; some papers say they can prove positive correlation with future index "prices" and some say they can prove negative correlation. They both cannot be correct at the same time if looking at the same periods. Whilst researching inputs to my own neural networks, I've found that measured price volatility has a more consistent correlation with future change in price than just about every other method (albeit often slightly weaker); hence it's used more widely in artificial learning systems than implied volatility. (You can test this for yourself in MetaStock, but it's painful, so I prefer to employ other applications designed with this sort of number crunching in mind, such as MatLab and Excel.)

Is this weakening correlation the same for all implied volatility VIXs for all markets? I don't know, but my correlation studies for the ASX are remarkably similar to the US, so I'm going to take a guess and say, based on a sample of only two markets, probably.

If you want to play with implied volatility based trading strategies, there are many web sites with information which might help you customise your system; Google is your friend to help you find information but it does not differentiate the good from the bad... like always, proceed carefully.


Laisze  
#12 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:19:54 PM(UTC)
Laisze

Rank:: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered, Registered Users, Subscribers
Joined: 11/18/2007(UTC)
Posts: 96
Location: HK

wabbit wrote:
In the past there may have existed strong (negative) correlation between $VIX and $SP, however that relationship has been in decline and accelerating for a period from 2012-2013


Wrong, again - your attempts at justifying and obfuscating your ignorance are futile.

For those that care, notice how every peak in the VIX corresponds to a dip in the market, and viceversa.




Users browsing this topic
Guest (Hidden)
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.