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koyasan  
#1 Posted : Sunday, March 17, 2013 1:06:40 AM(UTC)
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I use to enjoy those little puzzels where you have to spot the difference between two pictures. Well here are two charts of the last 3 months of Aud/Usd set to 2 hr periodocity. A popular template is used from Price Headleys BTTK plotting 80 Acceleration Bands and I've included a standard MACD in the bottom window. How many differences can you spot where the price crosses the bands? . My question is to Equis or Thompson Reuters or to Price Headley for that matter..Which chart should I base my trading decisions on? (the clue is in the title of this post). One chart uses Metastock V11 with Quotecentre data and the other is Metastock V12 with Xenith data. This is not a very funny puzzle.
John S  
#2 Posted : Monday, March 18, 2013 10:40:37 AM(UTC)
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I think you have a couple of things going on here:

1) QuoteCenter's FX data pulls from fewer bank contributors than does XENITH's. This is the nature of FX quotes. Virtually every data vendor (or broker) will provide different quotes depending on who their contributors are. And of course, different underlying price values will result in different indicator values.

2. I believe your bands have been overlayed with different y-axis scaling. When you drop the bands, make sure you choose "Merge with scale on right".

--john
mstt  
#3 Posted : Monday, March 18, 2013 2:35:35 PM(UTC)
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Hi John

I believe your observation in item 2 may be incorrect. If the bands were scaled differently to the price bars then I think the tops of the bands and prices would be at the same level, and the same would apply for the bottoms as well. However it's clear in both charts that this is not the case - the bands have a higher high and a higher low.

It seems to me that an uscaled indicator will spread vertically to fill the same space as price, and therefore equal tops and bottoms (for price and indicator) is the most likely pointer to mis-matched or no scaling. Just my opinion.

Roy

koyasan  
#4 Posted : Monday, March 18, 2013 4:37:59 PM(UTC)
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Thanks John and Roy for your replies.
I can confirm that on both charts the indicators plotted were properly scaled. When I first saw the difference that was my first thought as well.
John's suggestion that the data is essentially different from Quotecentre and Xenith is surely not plausible. The difference in data values would have to be substantive to account for the way both bands are plotted. Indeed if it were the case then I would have no confidence in any indicators being plotted on Reuters data.
I'm going to post a close up with grid lines for both charts (leaving out the Macd) later today to see if I can more clearly identify what is going wrong with Metastock 12 and Xenith.

wabbit  
#5 Posted : Monday, March 18, 2013 5:10:51 PM(UTC)
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You could try copying the data from both charts into Excel too. wabbit[:D]
koyasan  
#6 Posted : Monday, March 18, 2013 7:24:13 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for suggestion Wabbit..I have two Excel files but.would seem that I do not have permission to attach files to reply.
wabbit  
#7 Posted : Monday, March 18, 2013 7:30:47 PM(UTC)
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Upload them to a public server and provide a link to them here in the forum.



wabbit [:D]

koyasan  
#8 Posted : Monday, March 18, 2013 8:08:54 PM(UTC)
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http://www.4shared.com/f...ufUGmOu/Quotecentre.html
http://www.4shared.com/file/8kPhIPoL/Xenith.html

I had a quick scan through the data and it's now pretty obvious to me what is happening especially when you look at the data records either side of record number 1427 on the Xenith data. I think this might be related to another issue I had with Xenith data which I already reported to Equis and not yet fixed. Anyway I'm interested to get your opinion. Remember data was collected from both charts set to 120min periodocity.
wabbit  
#9 Posted : Monday, March 18, 2013 8:50:43 PM(UTC)
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I cannot download the files.... but at least you have seen what might be causing the errors/differences.


wabbit [:D]

P.S. Does your ISP provide you with web space? If so, it might be preferable to use that instead of these spam/virus/advertising ridden "free" file-sharing hosts.
koyasan  
#10 Posted : Monday, March 18, 2013 11:59:28 PM(UTC)
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sorry about that, looks like it's more than Metstock v12 which is dysfunctional today. I'll check with my ISP.
koyasan  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, March 19, 2013 12:45:49 AM(UTC)
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No luck with my ISP provider but in any case here is a close up image of Aud using Metastock V12 with Xenith data set to 120min periodocity. Clearly V12 cannot plot the data correctly as some days it plots hourly data and other days it plots 120 mins. This of course is not the case with V11 and Quotecentre data. Obviously this will affect how any indicators are plotted. A charting software than cannot plot charts correctly is more than just dysfunctional, it is misleading and is not a safe program to use for making trading decisions based on technical analysis. I think this is an issue which deserves the highest priority and a response from Equis as to when it is safe for me to use V12 again. Of course it could be just a problem confined to my software in which case I would welcome any suggestions.
eddie.m  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, March 19, 2013 5:57:32 AM(UTC)
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koyasan wrote:
A charting software than cannot plot charts correctly is more than just dysfunctional, it is misleading and is not a safe program to use for making trading decisions based on technical analysis. I think this is an issue which deserves the highest priority and a response from Equis as to when it is safe for me to use V12 again. Of course it could be just a problem confined to my software in which case I would welcome any suggestions.

Hi Koy,

It's hard to believe that all Equis staff are idiots who would do a prank like that. [:$]

Uninstall Xenith, reboot your PC.

Clean the registry, do scan disk, defragment hard drive. Reboot and re-install Xenith. [:)]

koyasan  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, March 19, 2013 5:43:36 PM(UTC)
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That's a bit drastic considering I have two versions of Metastock on my computer and custom indicators etc. I don't want to make a bad situation worse (at least Metsock V11 is working) but if Equis could confirm that this is not a widespread issue and confined to me then maybe a complete erase and reinstal of V12 and Xenith is called for. Does anyone know if I have to go back through online help or does technical support pick up on these issues raised in the forum?
MS Support  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, March 20, 2013 10:10:37 AM(UTC)
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Koysan

As John S mentioned, the contributors for Forex are different between QuoteCenter's FX data feed and Xenith's. This will cause some discrepancy in the data.

I think Investopedia has a good explanation for how FOREX is traded. See Page Here

"There is no central marketplace for currency exchange; trade is conducted over the counter. The forex market is open 24 hours a day, five days a week and currencies are traded worldwide among the major financial centers of London, New York, Tokyo, Zürich, Frankfurt, Hong Kong, Singapore, Paris and Sydney."

Since there is no central exchange for the FOREX each data provider will have a group of bank contributors that send data to them as trades are conducted through the bank. This means with thousands of banks trading FOREX world wide that prices can vary based on the bank contributors each company uses.

Now to the other issue you mentioned with the 2 hour charts. To find out if your issue is part of a known bug or due to something else, I would need to know more about the issue you see with the data in 12.

Do the bars change at a time you are not expecting?
~What do you expect to see?
Do you receive multiple 1 hour bars in a row followed by 2 hour bars?
~If Yes, at what time do you see these 1 hour bars?

What are your Start & End times for 12 & for QuoteCenter
In MetaStock 12, when you right click in your chart in a blank area, and go to Chart Window Properties, and then to Trading Sessions, what are the Trading Session times listed? In Which Time Zone are the times calculated?

In older versions of MetaStock you find this by going to File - Open, then typing the symbol in the Open Dialogue under the QuoteCenter tab and right clicking on the symbol in the list above the symbol box and selecting Properties. With the older versions of MetaStock all times are based off the timezone & system clock settings on your system.

If the trading sessions do not match this could also cause some difference in the calculations as the bars would change at different times, and give different calculations for the Bollinger Bands or other indicators.

Hopefully you find this information helpful, and it will help us track down the differences you see to the extent for which the differences in the bank contributors can accommodate.
koyasan  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:53:04 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for the quick reply, much appreciated.
First of all I don't believe any slight differences in Quotecentre's data feed and Xenith's has any significant effect on how the data is plotted (and by implication any indicator plotted from data). The issue is that V12 cannot correctly plot custom periodocity whether it be 120mins,90mins, 15 mins etc and (I have now discovered) it applies to all instruments including stocks. .Start and end times for Quotecentre and Xenith are the same (max 3 months as that is the limit for Xenith) and set for Canberra (Australian time zone).
Specifically with 2 hr charts and to answer your queries:
Do the bars change at a time you are not expecting? I've looked into this carefully and it seems that the problem is only evident on and before the 9th March 2013. From 11th March data is plotted at correct intervals. However this only applies to Forex data. When I looked at intraday data on stocks such as Apple the '2hr' intervals are plotted in a mixture of 30 mins,1 hr and 2 hr and is right through to present day.
What do you expect to see? Bars plotted at 2hr intervals
Do you receive multiple 1 hour bars in a row followed by 2 hour bars? Yes, the one hour bars are timestamped 8.01,9.01,10.01 etc never actualy on the hour.

Another thing I've discovered is that this applies to custom periodocity only, the default intervals seem to plot correctly. I would have thought given the erratic nature of this fault it sounds more like a bug and I look forward to your response.

MS Support  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, March 27, 2013 12:03:28 PM(UTC)
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Hi Koyasan

This is part of a bug that has been reported previously. I know that the engineering team is looking into this issue, but we have no ETA as to when a fix will be released. I apologize for any inconvenience this issue causes you.
koyasan  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, April 3, 2013 2:26:43 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for acknowledging that it is a bug and I hope it is fixed soon, I have no problem with that.

What I find harder to accept is why it takes so long to admit there is a 'bug' and instead throw out the red herrings about differences in data collection etc. Surely from my description of the issue it was obvious at an early stage that it was part of a known issue? Secondly when I have an issue I go to the forum "Product Alerts" and find nothing......not a single issue or bug is highlighted which would save my time and others. Please either delete "Product Alerts" or start filling it up with all the "known issues" on your files.

koyasan  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, April 17, 2013 1:32:07 AM(UTC)
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I see the updated version has not addressed this bug so the matter (and this thread status) remains unresolved. Fix this and give me the same quantity of intraday data I had with Quotecenter and I'll gladly sing the praises for V12. Sad thing is you are already half way there with Eikon being such a great source of data info and more user friendly than Quotecenter but in the end I need to rely on the charts to trade.
John S  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, April 17, 2013 12:31:17 PM(UTC)
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As was stated above, there is no ETA on when this will be fixed. We prioritize bugs and release as they are fixed in each monthly service release.

We're pushing the data team within the larger Eikon/ThomsonReuters world to increase the depth of intraday data. They tend to put more emphasis on breadth of data coverage, but I do know that this is fairly high on the list. And as always I cannot venture an ETA...especially on this one since I have limited visibility and influence into their world.

--john


koyasan  
#20 Posted : Friday, April 19, 2013 1:41:31 PM(UTC)
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Thanks John for the update. Personally I think the real issue here is transparency and trust. There are technical issues with Metastock V12 as there is with any charting software and that is acceptable. What is not acceptable is having to spend so much of my time searching through the Forum for answers or having to convince you guys to acknowledge there is even a problem. My suggestion, which I would kindly ask you to comment on, is to use the Product Alerts or devise a new category thread such as Known Issues & Bugs to inform the Metastock users about Known Issues & Bugs and how they are being managed. You already have the information so why not share it?

This model of working with customers is just normal industry standard and being transparent about issues will do no harm to the reputation or otherwise of Metastock. On the other hand lack of transparency just frustrates customers and in the long term undermines confidence in the product. Just my 2cents worth.
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