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billtrudeau  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, July 18, 2007 8:54:25 AM(UTC)
billtrudeau

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Well, it had to happen. I was trying to install some new formulas and got the message that my formula file is full. Many of you must have hit the limit. Any suggestions on how to get around this without having to weed out formulas every time that I want to enter a new one?

wabbit  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9:17:32 AM(UTC)
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bill,

I have hit the limit several times! Use the Formula Organizer judiciously to archive the functions you don't need. Group the functions together so they can be easily imported again if you need them, like all the Broad Market indicators in one exported folder, all the Dynamic Trend indicators in another etc. If you have the MDK, you have better options but it is not absolutely essential.

Some housekeeping now (and at regular intervals) will make life easier when you need to get something achieved quickly later.



Hope this helps.

wabbit [:D]

billtrudeau  
#3 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2007 9:15:43 AM(UTC)
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I have installed MS on a second computer so that I have a place to add new formulas. My primary computer, with its full formula file, reacts very slowly when I try to save a change to any of my custom formulas. Even simple formulas require about 4 minutes to save a minor change. My expert advisor button is also slow to open the first time I open that file after restarting MS.

Weeding out custom formulas is going to be a huge undertaking at this point because of the caution needed to avoid deleting a formula required by a an expert, an explorer or system tester. Also, I have many old formulas, some going back to the days when formulas were assigned by number and not by name. Also have a lot of older formulas left over from the days when variables were not allowed, nor multiple plots in one formula, which means that I have multiple MACD formulas with different periods, etc. Obviously these can be consolidated into one formula with variables included. All of this involves a lot of work.

At least in the old days, you could have multiple formula files located in different folders and you could change between these files by changing the referenced location. Point is that I hate to spend a lot of time with maintenance activities, same applies to the downloader data, when I should be focusing on market analysis and testing new formulas.

Given the power of today's computers, how much effort is involved in changing the program to allow larger formula files and/or going back to the condition where multiple file locations are allowed? Is the fact that my formula file is maxed out likely what is causing the slow performance of the program?

Improvements like these, that make the software more easily used, is what interests me more than some of the bells and whistles added of late.

hayseed  
#4 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2007 5:34:49 PM(UTC)
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hey bill..... pyradius would know best but here are my observations......

i had looked into this a good while back when one of mine became increasingly slow to respond even when just doing minor edits.... i have many computers side by side running daily so it's very easy to notice and compare..... but this particular computer had multiple copies of v9 on it and 1 copy ran slow and the other copies did not...... my conclusions were that everytime an edit is made meta must be checking far far more than just the formula in question..... possibly it's checking every formula or every place the formula being edited is being used ....... so there might be some type of search going on........

in any event, your correct, the slowness is somewhat proportional to the 'megabyte' size of the metastock folder..... so ram might be an issue.... and also like you mentioned, other operations will be slower.....

my computers tend to be the high end dell types, but this was several years ago so the cpu's would have been much slower and ram much smaller...... do you ever check your system resources ..... or do you ever get a virtual memory low warning..... h

billtrudeau  
#5 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2007 7:03:00 PM(UTC)
billtrudeau

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Thanks hayseed.

I still use my 4 year old laptop as my primary computer. I started with an IBM, 20 years ago, moved to a couple of Gateways, and 4 years ago moved to Compaqs, laptop and two desktops. They are not souped up systems, but very happy with them for the money. Most souped up systems seem to be geared towards gamers and multimedia. I primarily have a need for business applications and except for the realtime version of MS would think that MS does not require the best system to be more than adequate. I have a new hard drive on my laptop with plenty of room and 1 Gig of physical memory and what appears to be 2 Gigs of virtual memory. Seems like that should be enough. The most demanding aspect of MS seems to be when I shut down the real time version. If I exit the program, the data feed continues to run for some time and uses up a lot of the computer resources. I was not aware that this was happening until Equis contacted me and accused me of running MS on multiple machines at the same time. Seems that I would exist MS at work, but the data feed did not shut down, and then would fire it up when I got home. The funny thing is that even after MS closes, and the data feed is still running, my task manager says that MS is still running and is using up most of my computer resources.

Cant't remember how much memory I had on my IBM twenty years ago (Remember expanded and extended memory?) but had a 40 MB hard drive and all my friends told me that I would never be able to fill it up if I lived to be 100. That was a PS2 Model 80 and expandable to 80 MB. It was supposed to be able to function as a server for a small office, which is why I bought it. Remember the MASH cast pushing IBMs in the late 80s.

At any rate, hope MS comes up with one of my suggested solutions, maybe with a folder system that will help to organize formulas, maybe keeping formulas for different plug-ins in different folders. I would like a henry folder, and a Jose folder, and a Roy folder, etc.

johnl  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, September 11, 2007 2:19:02 PM(UTC)
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I had the same "slow' problem a while ago. I did two things that seemed to solve the problem.
First I deleted all my exploration "REPORTS", not explorations and then I defragged my hard
drive.
So I do this everytime MS starts to slow and so far so good.
billtrudeau  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, September 12, 2007 5:28:55 AM(UTC)
billtrudeau

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Thanks johnl.

I did as you suggested and it seems to have helped. Of interest is the fact that many of the explorer reports on my system could not be opened because a pop up message said that they were incompatible with the version of MS on my machine. Some reports were years old, so perhaps that was part of the problem.

Justin  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, September 12, 2007 12:10:37 PM(UTC)
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As hayseed mentioned, basically any time you edit an indicator, etc MetaStock is accessing the entire file, so the bigger that file the longer it will take to make changes. The option to change the Formula folder path changed with version 8 when we went to the new Enhanced System Tester. The ST_DATA.MDB (System Tester Database) has to reside in the MetaStock folder, otherwise the System Tester does not know where to write the results, summary, order, positions, etc (So I am told, haven't actually tested this).

"HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Equis\MetaStock Pro 10.1\File Paths" (Your version of MetaStock may be different in the path) still exists in the Windows Registry, even though the option inside MetaStock was removed. So in theory you can edit this file path but you would not likely be able to use the System Tester from any path other than the default path to MetaStock.

johnl  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, September 12, 2007 10:17:31 PM(UTC)
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Good to see you tried it, billtrudeau
Cleaning up the exploration reports also saves time in backing up the data files.
My "rar" file size which is the same as a "zip" file dropped by nearly 70%. I must
of had lots of junk.

billtrudeau  
#10 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2007 10:03:42 AM(UTC)
billtrudeau

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Well, I finally have begun the task of weeding out my formula file. I printed the formulas, which resulted in close to 600 pages of output and a sorely depleted toner cartridge. One thing that I noticed is that the 2000 formula limit must be somewhat arbitrary. Many of my older formulas are only a line or two while some of my current formulas are close to the 2500 character limit. In theory, the formula file could contain 2000 formulas each with 2500 characters, or the formula file could contain 2000 formulas each with only 1 line of code. Either way you would receive a message that the formula file is full, while the smaller file may be less than 5% the size of the larger file. That being said, I tend to think that the formula file limit of 2000 formulas must be somewhat arbitrary.

A huge undertaking will be involved in weeding the formula file, but no doubt that I will learn many things from the experience.

johnl  
#11 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2007 8:32:40 PM(UTC)
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Not arbitrary, the list is 2000 long, no matter the size, its a computer thing.
But you gave me an idea to help me solve the same problem.
Since I don't know which ones I can delete I will create one named "OLD" or whatever and
append the formula to be deleted into OLD, so that OLD contains not one but many formulas. Then I can delete the formula and find and reconstruct if I find I have made a mistake sometime down the road.
I do a "variations of a theme" of the same formula and end up with many similar formulas so I will create several "OLD" formulas and use them like a library so referencing is easier.
Thanks for the tip.






johnl  
#12 Posted : Thursday, October 11, 2007 7:59:44 AM(UTC)
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My computer just slowed while running MS so I poked around to see if I could pinpoint any problem.
I completed a series of explorations one after another in batch.
This is what I found:
First go to task manager (CTL-Alt-Dlt) and select "task manager".
Task manager gives you a list of everything on your computer
. I added "virtual memory size" to the list by selecting the VIEW tab, then take the "select columns" option and check mark "virtual memory".
Once it was on my list (sort the column in desending order) I noticed that the memory size of the MS app. was about 350,000k, (when I first started it was 40,000k).
So I closed the MS app. and went back to task manager and still found MS running happly in the background using 350,000K worth of memory.
How nice. I know this happens when my internet browser crashes so this is nothing new.
I also found that one of the explorations that was really slow was using a formula that "did not exist".
(I wonder who deleted it?......could have it been me?).
So you may go through this sequence of looking at task manager to get a better idea of "what is doing what on your computer".
This is not a complaint, more an FYI to help you investigate into the problem further.







billtrudeau  
#13 Posted : Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:29:06 AM(UTC)
billtrudeau

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It has been a long time since this topic was first discussed. As Equis continues to increase the number of plug-ins and add-ons it seems that it would be in their best interest, as well as ours, to solve the problem of the formula file size limit or at least to add back the ability to change the location of the formula files so that multiple formula files can be used. Does anyone know if the formula file size limit is a solvable problem, or at least if Equis is planning to add back the ability to change the location of the formula files?
wblam  
#14 Posted : Sunday, May 31, 2009 2:05:03 AM(UTC)
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Some people in this forum and the other forums has pointed out that as MS is a very old program, many problems can not be solved unless the whole program be rewritten. But Equis will not willing to do so.

billtrudeau  
#15 Posted : Sunday, May 2, 2010 8:24:54 PM(UTC)
billtrudeau

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Well, it has happened again. I thought that I had weeded out all of the duplicate and obsolete formulas that I could, but I recently received another package of formulas that I want to add to my formula file, but I only have room for 3 more formulas and need room for about 60. Last time this came up, before V11, I talked with Equis and they told me that no one else had raised concern about the 2000 formula limit. Well, version 11 did not address this problem. Is there someone with a programming background who can explain to me why we still have a formula limit of 2000 when computer hardware is many times more capable than it was years ago. Thanks, Bill
wblam  
#16 Posted : Monday, May 3, 2010 2:59:03 AM(UTC)
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Some one wrote in Yahoo Group:

"-- In equismetastock@ yahoogroups. com, gapupgoat <no_reply@.. .> wrote:
>
> I'm running 11.1 on a W7 64 bit machine. I can't even use the system tester. It crashes MS in the middle of a run. I'm told by Equis that 11.1 is exactly the same as 10.1. They just added a bunch of useless, barely adapting indicators. If I had known that I would have saved my money and stuck with 10.1 which also crashed my 64 bit Vista machine. Equis tells me that they can't solve the problem. They also say that they are totally re-writing MS from scratch to get beyond its many limitations but it will be years before that's accomplished. So here I am, using expert symbols to visually see what works best because I can't back test. It's actually working quite well. If I weren't so invested in MS I would change to another platform. And I won't be so easily hooked into upgrading next time. Rick."
FormulaPrimer  
#17 Posted : Monday, May 3, 2010 5:25:10 PM(UTC)
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2000 custom formulas? How many are us using? I would just copy the whole equis program folder on a flash drive etc so you have the copy of the everything and then delete all that is not being used... It will most likely be a handful of indicators, explorers and experts left that is really being used. There is such thing as hoarding of formulas even if it is virtual... I'm an personally a recovering formulas hoarder. LOL.
billtrudeau  
#18 Posted : Monday, May 3, 2010 7:18:15 PM(UTC)
billtrudeau

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On a regular basis I use a small percentage of them, but over time tend to look at many more of them. I have used MetaStock for 20 years, so have acquired many formulas from many of the usual places. I weed them out occasionally and by accident often delete ones used by a template. The point is, with the technology that exists today, why do I have to be bothered doing this type of maintenance. MS used to have the ability to change the location of the formula files so that it was easier to maintain multiple formula files. Something that bugs me about any product is when the product is changed and one of the changes takes away from the usefulness of the product. Perhaps part of the problem is that there may be few employees who have been with Equis for very long. I sometimes talk to Equis employees and they tell me that they have been using MS for a long time. It turns out that the long time they are talking about is 3 years. Since Equis has so many add-ons available I think that it would be in their interest to expand the number of formula which can be kept in the formula file or at least return the ability to maintain different formula files in different locations.
wabbit  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, May 4, 2010 12:29:05 AM(UTC)
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IMHO, the answer is to be able to arrange your formulas into seperate files and then edit the registry to point MS at the right indicator file. In the old days, this used to be able to be done on the fly from within MS, but now it must be done before MS starts. One solution therefore is to write a Windows script which asks the user which formula file to use, then writes this value to the registry, then starts MS; if you need to change formula files, then you will need to shutdown and restart MS after editing the registry.

wabbit [:D]

billtrudeau  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, April 20, 2011 11:08:56 AM(UTC)
billtrudeau

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Someone suggested that I could keep previous versions of MetaStock installed on other computers so that I could have different formula files on different computers. Is this approach kosher with the terms of use agreement? Also, does anyone know if MS offers discounts for purchase of additional copies of MS? If so, I might consider this so that I can maintain different versions of the formula file so that I can have all of my formulas and plug-ins available for use at any time without having to deal with the constant pruning of my formula file in order to stay under the 2000 formula limit.
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