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PSChakravarthy  
#1 Posted : Sunday, September 4, 2005 8:15:12 AM(UTC)
PSChakravarthy

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" Div(O+L+H,3), Div(O-L-H-C,2), O-L-H , H-L-C. , DIV( C-H-L-O,2) "

No parts of this Systems may be copied, shared, duplicated, distributed online, Renamed or used for any purposes outside of the trading and research activity of the owner.All Rights Reserved.

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  • 02-22-2006, 14:32 14952 in reply to 14869

    Re: Collecting data

    Div(O-H-L-C,2) = can be added as a cusotmer indicator and plotted on any security. I am not sure if, why and or when this was dropped from the data. I would think it was dropped because it can be calculated form other data.

    Doc
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03-29-2007, 5:02 23503 in reply to 23502

Re: Code NO 3

" Software and data supporting OHLC's volume too ".....
No parts of this Systems may be copied, shared, duplicated, distributed online, Renamed or used for any purposes outside of the trading and research activity of the owner.
wabbit  
#2 Posted : Friday, July 7, 2006 2:51:46 AM(UTC)
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... and while we are looking at this again, we can notice the Bears 1 method simplifies as : (3*O-H-L-C)/8 which will make the formula just a fraction faster! wabbit :D
wabbit  
#3 Posted : Friday, July 7, 2006 5:09:27 AM(UTC)
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I just put my "lets be cynical and critically look at some code" hat on and came back to visit these codes. Although we congratulate Patibanda for his view of the market refllected in this code, I emphasise yet again the dangers of taking any code at face value without carefully scrutinising every line and function. This is not any sort of attack on the author, but a demonstration of how all codes should be analysed before use. -- Looking at the Where Bear Dares 1 code : Div(Div(O-L-H-C,2)+Div(O+L+H+C,4),2);0 {Swing Or Close,at -ve Value,"Bull"; At +ve Value the end of Bull.} We can simplify the expression as : (3*O-H-L-C)/8 Now the multiplier of 1/8 is just a scalar, so can be ignored. The shape of the resultant graph will be the same without a scalar as with the scalar, but just the value at each point will be different, so we re-write the code more simply again as: 3*O-H-L-C; The instructions for interpretting/using the code as provided: {Swing Or Close,at -ve Value,"Bull"; At +ve Value the end of Bull.} or saying it another way: If the indicator is below zero, the short term trend is bullish, otherwise the short term trend is bearish. What does it take for the indicator to be above or below zero? Using the simplified code it is easier to see what conditions are required to generate bull or bear signals, this was not so obvious from the code originally posted: The indicator is precariously balanced at zero. -- We can apply similar logic to the second formula for Where Bear Dares 2: Div(O-L-H-C,2) {Bear Dares Below this value} Again the divisor is just a scalar, so can be safely omitted without affecting the shape of the plot, just the scale. (O-L-H-C) {Bear Dares Below this value} We notice this result will always be less than zero, so we will introduce a scalar to ensure the result is always more than zero, again without affecting the shape of the plot (in fact we will be reflecting the plot about the zero axis) by multiplying by (-1): -(O-L-H-C) which simplifies as: (-O+L+H+C) We notice the resultant reflected plot has an exceptionally similar shape to the original price plot, but just at twice the price, so we introduce another scalar, this time we multiple by 0.5, or divide by 2: (-O+L+H+C)/2 Now lets pretend for the majority of time the opening price and closing price are equal or very nearly equal (we can test this assumption by summing the open-close price over the life of the stock and observe for the majority of stock this value tends towards zero i.e the open and closing prices are almost equal over time). We can then assume that on average (-O+C)=0, so we are left with: (L+H)/2 which is of course the built in MS function MP(). We can also note, for just about all time for all stocks, the difference between: MP() = (H+L)/2 and Typical() = (H+L+C)/3 and (O+H+L+C)/4 and Bears 2 is very small, small enough not to be considered significant? In any case, the indicator will of course be bearinh when it is moving down because it follows the price movements exactly, and the same when it is moving up! -- Careful scrutiny of the code has shown it might be of limited value for most people, however the author has obviously fitted it into his trading system. Hopefully, this post might serve as a demonstration on how to take code apart to see how it works. Maybe not so much on this forum, but there are people attempting to baffle brains with bullsh1t, or what I call junk code, and you'd surprised how many so-called "intelligent" people fall for line after line after complicated line of confusing and self-fulfilling code. Without careful analysis, you'd fail to see that many codes are just misleading. Hope this helps.
PSChakravarthy  
#4 Posted : Friday, July 7, 2006 7:17:32 AM(UTC)
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wabbit  
#5 Posted : Friday, July 7, 2006 7:19:36 AM(UTC)
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Patibanda wrote:
why you are with (3*O-H-L-C)/8 , 3*O-H-L-C. and where did it come from (3) and for what reasons?
Its just simple maths... UserPostedImage
Patibanda wrote:
Why this " We can then assume that on average (-O+C)=0, so we are left with: (L+H)/2 " How can you use a -ve value at open, based on and why ? and why "We can then assume that on average (-O+C)=0," and why "so we are left with: (L+H)/2, what ever is the Number, what are the main reasons to ignore ? and Returns (-O+C)=0 ? {A lot of info in that , and no comments on this ) How can you justify the codes?
Again, simple maths... The negative value of the Opening price comes from the reflection of the original indicator around the zero line. The original code was: (O-H-L-C) We note, this value will ALWAYS be less than or equal to zero. ALWAYS. We can reflect the indicator so that is always greater than zero by using a scalar, in this case by muliplying by (-1). The resultant code is therefore: (O-H-L-C)*(-1) = -O+L+H+C To justify that over the long term (O-C)=0, try this: create a new exploration: {ColA} Cum(O-C) Load as much data as you have to give the most accurate represtentation. Now using Excel or similar, sum the results of all the stocks in any market or even all markets. The result is very close to zero in just about every instance. This is the same argument used by some to show it doesnt matter if you work with opening prices, or closing prices, or highs or lows, because eventually they differences between select pairs averages to zero.
Patibanda wrote:
In my trading "years" i saw manny codes and used them before, and lost heavily , I know the investors , traders and brokers who are now in begging stage and some of them even comitted suicides.
The exact reason why we scrutinise every code.
Patibanda wrote:
And why you are trying to convince with "which is of course the built in MS function MP(). We can also note, for just about all time for all stocks, the difference between: MP() = (H+L)/2 and Typical() = (H+L+C)/3 and (O+H+L+C)/4 and Bears 2 is very small, small enough not to be considered significant ".
Plot each of them and you will see the difference between each is very small; the general curve of each is very similar, the distance between them is negligible, and the differences averaged over time tends towards zero. wabbit :D
PSChakravarthy  
#6 Posted : Friday, July 7, 2006 7:28:03 AM(UTC)
PSChakravarthy

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PSChakravarthy  
#7 Posted : Friday, July 7, 2006 10:42:04 AM(UTC)
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uasish  
#8 Posted : Friday, July 7, 2006 11:24:01 AM(UTC)
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Respected Wabbit, You are right (mathematically proved) about O or C being almost same.Now if one admits , then the very basic premises of Black & White candle in candlestick method is at stake.The hidden fallacy of your matametically correct observation is "Time Frame".The fluctuation of price everday, has being the Engine of our personal wealth creation/ destruction for (Intra Day Traders).Now if the Time in y axis (price in x axis) is expanded say to a quater then those daily fluctuations are insignificant.This is the reason why identifying Cycle/ Trend people's use Larger MA .Now your Cum function has used Time in y axis tends to zero(as the no of days data loaded for many people is robust).For Trader's of smaller time frame the significance of O to C is important and significant.More over we only have 6 max inputs and your mathametically correct logic almost robbed me of few or all (philosophically then all is insignificant) of those. Regards Asish
PSChakravarthy  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, July 11, 2006 4:31:07 PM(UTC)
PSChakravarthy

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PSChakravarthy  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, July 11, 2006 4:44:19 PM(UTC)
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uasish  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, July 11, 2006 7:14:14 PM(UTC)
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Dear Mr Chakroborty, I will spell like that only.Now i am sure you are a bengali like me.Bengali's normally act like what Zidane did.Though Zidane reacted to a rascist slur (as per hearsay).Do you know why "Wabbit" uses that fish & fishing thing at the end of the post, the same reason for "Jose" using Init:= & bin:= in his code, only to further fortify the boolean logic by removing any ghost signals. Wabbit uses it to remind us that we are his pupil.I truly belive that & try to learn max .Dont forget "Steve" was removed from daily day to day activities from Apple Computer.Actually "Wabbit" is a nice guy who after having a glass of wine is cool. Kindly Revert back your decision. Regards
StorkBite  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, July 11, 2006 7:15:00 PM(UTC)
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Patibanda, I have no idea what you are talking about... [scratching head] As we have discussed in times past, your posts are fine. Though, you cannot reasonably expect for people not to discuss and refine your formulas. This is afterall a forum. The best possible outcome would be a concise formula that people all understand and might be able to incorporate into their own trading. Rather than posting your formulas and then retracting them (or asking the Moderator to delete them) give pause to think about the venue in which you choose to share them. You are free to post your formulas on this forum anytime.
PSChakravarthy  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, July 12, 2006 9:56:24 AM(UTC)
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StorkBite  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, July 12, 2006 3:18:29 PM(UTC)
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Quote:
Any one can change our codes and our comments in their favour ?
I agree that routine comments should not be changed. I was not previously aware that your post had been altered, but let me say now that I did not change it nor do I believe that Wabbit changed it. Aside from Wabbit and myself, there are others with the capability to edit posts too. Unfortunately, I cannot foreseeably control everyone's actions and make them do the right thing. There's a little matter of ethics (and self-conscience) that we are all accountable to. I have no way to track the history of post edits in phpBB. When we change our software shortly, I will be able to track moderator and administrator actions. Ultimately, this behavior does not serve the greater good of the forum, so if I can identify the perpetrator, I can take action.
Quote:
How can we break a code and argue as we like ?
The world is made up of all types of people. This forum does not represent academia, but it is peer-reviewed. Realistically, you will never get 100% consensus on anything. You just have to learn to live with it. If you are happy with your trading methods, then that's all that matters. My advice is to not let all of this [arguing?] bother you. It's certainly not personal. You've been a good contributor to our community and I hope that you will see things a little brighter in the future and decide to continue your contributions.
Quote:
I even mailed you and patric , when Mr jose started that "competition"
Sorry, I did not get an email from you. Perhaps my server blocked it. I don't really know. PM's are the way to go.
wabbit  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, July 12, 2006 3:33:33 PM(UTC)
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StorkBite wrote:
I did not change it nor do I believe that Wabbit changed it
I didn't edit the post. On the very rare occassion that I do edit a post, I leave a tag telling the world who edited the post and why, and usually contact the original post author by PM. I only edit posts that are in clear contravention of the Forum Rules. wabbit :D
wabbit  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, July 12, 2006 3:45:13 PM(UTC)
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wabbit wrote:
Although we congratulate Patibanda for his view of the market refllected in this code, I emphasise yet again the dangers of taking any code at face value without carefully scrutinising every line and function.
wabbit wrote:
This is not any sort of attack on the author, but a demonstration of how all codes should be analysed before use.
wabbit wrote:
Careful scrutiny of the code has shown it might be of limited value for most people, however the author has obviously fitted it into his trading system.
Is there a problem? I never said the code was wrong, I just pointed out another way of achieving the same results and demonstrated the Bears2 method will always follow the contours of the price chart for the reasons given. Was I wrong? wabbit :D
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