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PTJim  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, January 11, 2017 5:55:35 PM(UTC)
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Just received the following via email. Rather than improve the creaky old engine to make it more efficient and usable for daily traders who have been longtime customers, they're trying to cram the new glitz and useless geegaws down our throats. Even long-requested trivial improvements haven't been made (like showing accepted symbol-counts in Explorations, rather than just rejection counts - I could code that for them in 10 minutes). I don't mind upgrades and don't mind paying something for them, but an upgrade should be just that - improvements that make the product work better for me. Restoring local data gets you back the capability I already have in version 11 and removed a deal-killer barrier to my upgrading, but it adds nothing for me; nothing else has been changed or added to the product that would benefit me, from the many demos I've watched and features lists I've read.

There is no reason MS couldn't keep the activation server alive; they're just trying to force us to cough up more cash for nothing beneficial. If it's really that onerous or impossible to do, MetaStock, why not just remove the DRM altogether so we can stay alive after a system crash or other problem in the future? Do you really think so little of your longtime customers who have invested thousands of dollars in your product, plugins and services - are you that desperate for revenue, to resort to "digital extortion", forcing us to pay $249 for (in my case, at least) absolutely no product improvement after ten years?

I'm sure I'm not the only one taking a pass on the last few versions because they really don't add anything to benefit serious traders who develop our own methodologies rather than keep looking for the latest "magic system". Since you're walking away from us, I think it's finally time for me to get serious about finding a modern alternative to MetaStock, even with all the hassle, effort and time that would entail. Now that I think about it, perhaps another way to go is to revert to my v9.1 copy of MetaStock, which has none of this DRM nonsense embarnacling it; I'd have to test my v11 chart layouts and Explorations for compatibility, but I have a feeling they'd work.




Dear Valued Client;

This important notice is for all clients currently using MetaStock versions 10 or 11. If you have a more recent of version of MetaStock, you may ignore this notice.

We no longer support the licensing technology that allows users to activate MetaStock version 10. Additionally, as of February 1, 2017 we will no longer support the licensing technology that allows users to activate version 11 of MetaStock software.

You will no longer be able to activate or login to MetaStock versions 10 or 11 under certain conditions. These include, but are not limited to:

If you install the MetaStock 10 or 11 on a new computer or new hard drive
If you need to reinstall or reactivate MetaStock 10 or 11 on your current hard drive due to issues with the licensing software
This issue will have no effect on your current version of The Downloader.

Though we will continue to support MetaStock 10 and 11 as much as reasonably possible, if your current version requires installation, or reactivation for any reason, you will no longer be able login in to version 10 or 11 of MetaStock.

We understand that some clients choose to continue using these older versions of MetaStock due to their ability to function with local data and operate offline. In our latest version of MetaStock we have re-incorporated these features.

Edited by user Friday, January 13, 2017 5:30:23 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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damo  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, January 18, 2017 5:51:32 AM(UTC)
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I totally agree with PTJim. This action is:

Totally lacking in ethics, it does nothing for Equis' image.

Does not give me faith in any additinal future version I may pay for, this fosters a complete lack of trust. How are you supposed to maintain a business relationship with someone you don't trust?

Appears to be nothing short from overt pressure to force existing users to upgrade (cash grab), which should not be expected in all future purchases.

When you outright purchase a copy of Metastock, you own this for life. Period. Metastock owes us all a license at the minimum.

And, most of all this is downright illegal, yes, when I purchased MS 10 and MS 11, I purchased the software and full license. Equis must supply the license as part of that legally binding contract when they sold me software without a product end date and they accepted my cash in return. This is a legally binding contract in any country. Maintaining a licensing server does NOT count towards ongoing support, support is assistance of sorts such as updates/upgrades and resolving unexpected issues. If Equis chose to go down the path of a licencing server then that is their problem, not mine. If Equis no longer want a licensing server, then they must provide an alternative method of supplying a license.

If Equis choose to break the rules whenever they want then it will be time for me to move on in the very least. I'm sure a lot of others will feel the same. Equis was hurting when they removed the Downloader, this will be worse. Now I don't want to move on, so I am publically asking: "Equis, please provide a licensing scheme for future use in MS 10 & 11". Failing this, I will begin to write Equis out of my future investment scheme.

Edited by user Thursday, January 19, 2017 6:25:25 AM(UTC)  | Reason: spelling errors

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PTJim  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, January 18, 2017 8:45:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: damo Go to Quoted Post
If Equis no longer want a licensing server, then they must provide an alternative method of supplying a license.

I hope they don't think so little of their longtime "valued customers" that they assume we just can't wait to start pirating 10-year old versions of the software that still work just fine for us.

If your license-server vendor has abandoned you, then just remove the DRM from versions 10/11 and be done with it, Equis.  Otherwise, you're really putting a damper on any inclination for me to recommend MetaStock to other traders - after putting a couple thousand dollars into it, being told "sorry, we're killing it" tends to do that.

Edited by user Wednesday, January 18, 2017 8:47:06 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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damo  
#4 Posted : Thursday, January 19, 2017 6:33:41 AM(UTC)
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Hey PTJim, we need to get more momentum with this.

If your license-server vendor has abandoned you, then just remove the DRM from versions 10/11 and be done with it, Equis.  Otherwise, you're really putting a damper on any inclination for me to recommend MetaStock to other traders - after putting a couple thousand dollars into it, being told "sorry, we're killing it" tends to do that.

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MS Support  
#5 Posted : Thursday, January 19, 2017 4:51:23 PM(UTC)
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Hi all, Thank you for your comments. I would recommend contacting us via: http://www.metastock.com...mpany/about/contact.aspx to discuss any outstanding concerns. Just as a reminder existing installations of MetaStock 10 and 11 should continue to work fine.
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PTJim  
#6 Posted : Thursday, January 19, 2017 5:30:17 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: MS Support Go to Quoted Post
I would recommend contacting us via: http://www.metastock.com...mpany/about/contact.aspx to discuss any outstanding concerns. Just as a reminder existing installations of MetaStock 10 and 11 should continue to work fine.
Yes, until our hardware has a problem - which all hardware eventually does.

Thanks for checking in on this thread, which I believe fully expresses our "outstanding concerns" about this issue.

Jordan called me a few days ago, attempting to upsell me on the new version. He was very patient as I explained all the clunky issues I have with version 11 that make daily use inefficient and which still haven't been addressed in 10 years, including v15, but of course had no encouraging words to offer about fixing any of them. I just hope he took notes, but I've made these comments before with no results. For instance, why does MS still consider it more important to report "Securities Rejected" and "Percent Rejected" during Explorations, rather than those that have been Accepted? A running tally of rejected does me zero good when developing or debugging my Explorations. I've been asking for this 10-minute coding job for at least eight years, but it remains unfixed to this day.

Anybody who's used MS for several years and upgrades just to get the Forecaster or "New Systems!" isn't a trader, because they think there's still some magic beans or secret system out there to make big money. What I'd like to see is to improve MetaStock as a tool and toolbox for technical traders, upgrading the way it works (and doesn't work) in daily use by those of us who have methodologies we've developed over the years to fit our own trading styles.

Of course, if you have any documented success stories from traders who've gotten rich with RMO, the Forecaster or any of the other MS black boxes, I'm all ears.

Edited by user Thursday, January 19, 2017 5:44:23 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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oldtimer  
#7 Posted : Thursday, January 19, 2017 9:31:22 PM(UTC)
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I have been using Metastock since DOS 3.0 version.    I have upgraded many times and am tired of all the new versions that add nothing but useless tools that I don’t need, so I’m still on version 11.   There are so many alternatives to Metastock now, including the sophisticated platforms available through online brokerages.   

If they don’t get rid of the DRM within the next few months, I will simply not renew when my annual Datalink subscription expires.   That’s a few hundred dollars a year.  I’m not going to wait until some unforeseen reason that I might have to reinstall Metastock before I drop it.   It is sheer idiocy to risk losing long time Metastock/Datalink customers over DRM.  

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Murray Richards  
#8 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 4:58:56 AM(UTC)
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As well I am a user since dos . I have version 10 on an old computer that is dead so I guess I won't ever be using it again but will contact support and hope. They need to look at what their opposition offer. Lifetime licences, run one instance from any machine etc.  Forcing an upgrade is really an admission that the upgrade is not very good.

Edited by user Thursday, January 26, 2017 5:57:46 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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PTJim  
#9 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2017 2:44:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Murray Richards Go to Quoted Post

 

Forcing an upgrade is really an admission that the upgrade is not very good.

A good way to put it. If a v10 user, for instance, has to have his/her arm twisted to upgrade FIVE major-release levels after 10 years or so, and still isn't leaping at the chance to do it, what does that say about the attractiveness of the product to experienced users of MS who know their version inside and out, what they'd like to see improved and the perceived value of upgrading?

I've been mostly satisfied with MS11 over the years, and really want these guys to survive and thrive, but reinstating local data is the biggest improvement in v15 and I already have that. What I'm looking forward to is streamlining, fixes to the workflow and performance improvements under the hood.

Ask longtime users, who use MS every day, what they want in a new version! I doubt you'd hear many requests for The Forecaster, RMO and the control panel. I'd be in ecstasy if I could change 12 onscreen charts to a new template all at once without having to do 50 or 60 mouseclicks as I modify them one at a time and confirming that yes, they need to remain Smart Charts and yes I want to overwrite the existing chart with the new layout, and I have to remember to close the old chart before trying to save the new one because otherwise I get a big beep and an error message. Ten years of doing that process over and over is just depressing. Do any of the programmers who code MetaStock actually USE it every day, or even occasionally?

And after a decade, I'm still wondering why the Rejected count is more important to display than the Accepted count when running explorations on 12,000 symbols, especially when testing a new exploration. If I expect maybe 12 out of 12,000 to make the cut, why do I have to wait until the very end to find I'm getting zero because of a coding error on my part? I've watched the v15 videos very carefully; it still works this way. A 10-minute coding effort could fix this, but maybe it's been in QA for ten years.

I don't know if I'll wait for v16 or not, if my ability to use MS is always at risk of a sudden hardware crash, but I certainly hope that SOMEBODY is reading these threads and listening to longtime loyal customers. I don't want my analysis toolbox to be brought to a sudden screeching halt and thinking "man, I wish I'd switched to TradeStation, so I could bring up my backups on a new machine."

How about just removing the DRM, MetaStock? Throw us a bone for our longtime support. These versions are 10 years old and I PROMISE I won't pirate it out on the streets. Is ANYBODY listening to what we're saying about the risk you're imposing on us?

Edited by user Thursday, January 26, 2017 3:03:07 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Details about improvements desired.

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KenKsp  
#10 Posted : Monday, January 30, 2017 2:53:30 AM(UTC)
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I don't get why support would post a message to contact them only to waste more of my time. I like most have used MS since the DOS days up to version 11 when they no longer support e signal or local data. I switched to Amibroker Pro a few years ago and never looked back. It was a breeze to code in my systems. Just search online and take a look at what they can do and its cheaper, light speed fast and works with many data vendors. Even free ones for real time like Google and Yahoo. I have no investment in them but was also in a bind to move off the platform. That said, I contacted MetaStock Support just to see if they would give out an MS.exe that would bypass the license server. That would take maybe 5 minutes to compile but they said no. Bad business to this day. I contacted the CEO a few years ago with a list of issues. What I can't believe is that I received an email a few days ago that MS 11 would not work starting 2/1. They purposely gave you NO time to even look into options. All I can say is thank God for Amibroker. Download the free version to test it out like I did.
PTJim  
#11 Posted : Monday, January 30, 2017 3:21:33 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: KenKsp Go to Quoted Post
What I can't believe is that I received an email a few days ago that MS 11 would not work starting 2/1. They purposely gave you NO time to even look into options. All I can say is thank God for Amibroker. Download the free version to test it out like I did.

To be clear, Ken, I believe MS 10/11 won't stop working on Feb. 1st (it had BETTER NOT, I've got enough on my plate this week!), but if you want/need to move MS to another hardware setup, the DRM activation won't work any more to achieve that.

So, if your PC crashes for instance, you're done with MetaStock unless you upgrade, because you can no longer install/reinstall it.

I haven't looked at Amibroker in years; will take another look at it - thanks.

Edited by user Monday, January 30, 2017 3:33:31 PM(UTC)  | Reason: cleanup, more info

Murray Richards  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:59:32 AM(UTC)
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The purchase version contains the MetaStock software only and is purchased for a one-time charge. The software is always accessible because you own it and have paid for it outright  ............ Sure

"Of course, if you have any documented success stories from traders who've gotten rich with RMO, the Forecaster or any of the other MS black boxes, I'm all ears."

 

I doubt any of the packaged Experts , Explorations would test profitable with a robust engine. So what do you think your customers really want ?  A Dream I guess. Someone to draw arrows where they could of bought yesterday  ?

I am not upgrading and wouldn't use it if they gave it to me for free. I have no faith in the companies goals. I have installed version 9 from disk and have recovered my work in ver 10 from the dead pc.  I do like metastocks charts for EOD data.

Most my work is now in MultiCharts. Have a look at what a real company does for their customers.

damo  
#13 Posted : Thursday, February 16, 2017 5:04:26 AM(UTC)
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So I decided to buy the upgrade. I got a rude shock that in the event that I want to use my own local data, I have to pay a monthly maintenance fee!! This was never disclosed at the time of purchase, and I never had this problem with v10 or v11 !
PTJim  
#14 Posted : Thursday, February 16, 2017 5:19:37 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: damo Go to Quoted Post
So I decided to buy the upgrade. I got a rude shock that in the event that I want to use my own local data, I have to pay a monthly maintenance fee!! This was never disclosed at the time of purchase, and I never had this problem with v10 or v11 !
WHAT? Are you sure? Any link or documentation quote you can provide? Are you sure this isn't a data-supplier charge?
If this is true, and my MS11 breaks down, I'm going back to 9.1 while I look for a competitor's product to replace it.
Hey, MS Support, can you confirm or deny this? Is management seeking to drive us away rather than bring the product into the 21st Century?

Edited by user Thursday, February 16, 2017 5:31:26 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

MS Support  
#15 Posted : Thursday, February 16, 2017 3:31:11 PM(UTC)
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Strictly speaking for the non-DataLink MetaStock 15 users, there is either a Monthly or Annual Maintenance ID that is associated with this. This is either $1/mo or $10/year. This works effectively as a DataLink User ID and Password, allowing you to log in to the software. Offline Use is limited to I believe 30 days before a login via the Maintenance ID is required. This should be spelled out at the time of purchase (it is clearly spelled out when ordering online). If it was not this is definitely something we should work through customer service/sales rep who took the order. http://www.metastock.com...mpany/about/contact.aspx
PTJim  
#16 Posted : Thursday, February 16, 2017 3:52:33 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: MS Support Go to Quoted Post
Strictly speaking for the non-DataLink MetaStock 15 users, there is either a Monthly or Annual Maintenance ID that is associated with this. This is either $1/mo or $10/year. This works effectively as a DataLink User ID and Password, allowing you to log in to the software. Offline Use is limited to I believe 30 days before a login via the Maintenance ID is required.


This should be spelled out at the time of purchase (it is clearly spelled out when ordering online). If it was not this is definitely something we should work through customer service/sales rep who took the order. http://www.metastock.com...mpany/about/contact.aspx
That's insane. What do we get for the "maintenance ID"? Free upgrades to new versions?  Priority support?  Nothing at all?  You're the one adding the onerous DRM, so YOU pay for it out of the $249 upgrade charge to a version that adds NOTHING to benefit version 11 users. Show me how to update a dozen onscreen charts to an updated template without 50 mouse clicks; is THAT improved?

Are you trying to lose existing customers for good? Do you think we can be replaced by newbies roped in by Forecaster glitz and promises of new magical black-box systems? Technology generally improves and becomes more cost-effective; I'm sorry, this is just embarrassing for you.

Edited by user Thursday, February 16, 2017 4:16:50 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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damo  
#17 Posted : Saturday, February 18, 2017 9:35:39 AM(UTC)
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To be honest, its not the current $10 per month that is really annoying me. Its the fact that it is just another charge I have to deal with. And... we all know how it goes, 10 dollars now, then it ratchets up exponentially. You guys are really giving us a good reason to depart ways forever. Multicharts, Ninja or Amibroker here I come.
PeterSwartz123  
#18 Posted : Friday, February 24, 2017 4:51:15 PM(UTC)
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Is there a way to completely bypass activation on Metastock 11 legally or illegally? (I don't care, because the company business practise is illegal). I posted my experience with a recent activation here

Edited by user Friday, February 24, 2017 4:53:35 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

xavierbaez  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, June 19, 2018 5:05:49 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: damo Go to Quoted Post
To be honest, its not the current $10 per month that is really annoying me. Its the fact that it is just another charge I have to deal with. And... we all know how it goes, 10 dollars now, then it ratchets up exponentially. You guys are really giving us a good reason to depart ways forever. Multicharts, Ninja or Amibroker here I come.

I think he said $1/month

not $10/month.

That is $10 dollars per year

$0.83 per month.

Less than a dollar per month.

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